I found out, that bismuth is a good electrode material, it only has 0,3V electrode potential. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrode_potential
This needs less energy for electrolyses.
He always says, that he uses 1 car battery with 12V. If he uses the 12V for supplying the reactor, he has a lot of "waste" voltage for electrolyses.
Indeed I found out, that when a higher voltage is applied to one cell, than for electrolyses needed (>1,4V), the most energy turns into heat. But why?--> I takes me ~half a year to found out why:
The voltage bigger than 1,4V is used to create heat because, more atomic hydrogen is created. The atomic hydrogen reacts very fast (
But we have about 1sec. to pull out the atomic hydrogen with help of the engines vacuum. So Mr. Dingle surely has no pressure system, but a vacuum system to pull out the hydrogen and the atomic hydrogen out of the reactor. In a video he says: "it takes a few turns to start the engine because the hydrogen is sucked into the engine".
Although the H+H reactes to H2, the H2 in this case is very reactive. More reactive than out of the industrial pressure bottle.
It is called the "statu nascendi", which means for a few seconds, the atomic hydrogen H and/or the molecular hydrogen H2 are very reactive. The scientist do not know why this happens. But they made comparisson to normal H2 out of a pressure bottle--> less reactive gas than in "statu nascendi".
1) After creating a gas in the reactor with voltages greater than 1,4-2,6V (depending on the electrodematerial) the amount of atomic Hydrogen is much higher, which exist 2) Altough the gas is combining to H2 and creating heat, it is still very reactive a few seconds
3) With help of the vacuum of the enigne, we can suck the created H and H2 in less than 1second into the combustion chamber.
I think, this is also the reason, why Mr. St. Meyer built the injector. So the time of creating hydrogen and burning it in the combustion chamber is minimized (All of this happens in the injector nealy at the same time). The chance to use the H+H reaction creating an anourmos amount of heat is higher. So the injector produces hydrogen and bruning it at nearly the same time using the H+H reaction....
IMHO Dingle did the same, but uses an external reactor.
Now the punch line is: atomic hydrogen is magnetic!
With such a strong magnet like the neodym, we can control the flow of atomic hydrogen, or we can help push the atomic hydrogen away from the electrodes in the moment of its birth. Or we can aligne the atomic hydrogen on the way to the combustion chamber, so that a reaction of H+H is prevented in the vacuum tube of the reactor.
A lot of gases (specially chemical radicals like hydrogen atom) have the paramagnetic property.
Quote: "The narrowest definition would be: a system with unpaired spins that do not interact with each other. In this narrowest sense, the only pure paramagnet is a dilute gas of monatomic hydrogen atoms. Each atom has one non-interacting unpaired electron."
When bismuth is used as electrode, it helps to push away the atomic hydrogen.
Still thinking of the reaction in the cumbostion chamber:
H+H --> H2
2H2 +O2 ->2H2O
Two times we can get energy out of the reactions. Specially the first one achieves a lot of energy.
Think of the definition in St. Meyers Memos of the "Hydrogen Fracturing Process":
The Hydrogen Fracturing Process simply triggers and releases atomic energy from natural water by allowing highly energized sub-critical combustible gas ions to come together during thermal gas ignition.
atomic energy= atomic hydrogen
subcritical state = "statu nascendi"
Only come together during gas ignition!
The man was right when he sayes, that voltage can generate hydrogen atoms.
So he used the atomic hydrogen to form the GTNT (Thermal explosive energy). There are a few parallels to dingel car IMHO. Because he also sucked directly into the engine.
I know this sounds crazy but I tried at home with some magnets to influence the HHO foam/bubbles.
Here is a video (not mine) which you can see the magnetism of (atomic) Hydrogen:
The hydrogen clouds disappear after a seconds, that only can be hydrogen in statu nascendi. It looks like this is the reactive gas consists of H2 and H. H2 is not able to be magnetised. It also looks like, that when the magnet catch a cloud, that the cloud disappear slower than the other clouds. Maybe the magnetism can slow down the H+H reaction.
atomic hydrogen(h+) is more energy than hydrogen gas(h2).that why first version of stan wfc need laser to ionize hydrogen gas.high gtnt = if electron far away from proton that will be more energy, more explosion energy to be stable state (h+)--> h2 --> water--> solid.maybe pressure that work for making unstable state,imho.Dingle use monopole magnet to pull h+ out and hard to combine to hydrogen gas.
In the video you see, that the gas is following the magnetization lines.
Out of the quote of wiki:
" Of course, the element hydrogen is virtually never called 'paramagnetic' because the monatomic gas is stable only at extremely high temperature; H atoms combine to form molecular H2 and in so doing, the magnetic moments are lost (quenched), because the spins pair."
So in this clouds, the only element which is magnetic, is the atomic hydrogen. Which is produced in the HHO Cell. Unfortunately, the atomic hydrogen exist only for less than 1 sec. So we have to catch it with a strong magnet, or we suck it as fast as we can into the engine.
So essentially it would be best to produce this atomic Hydrogen as close to the combustion chamber as possible; maybe even inside the combustion chamber as Stan attempted with his injectors. Interesting.
So would you say this atomic Hydrogen is far more energetic than H2? I'm assuming that is the case, but how much more powerful? Twice? Three times? More?
I know heatlocke would be very interested in finding the best delivery mechanism for his cell.
the chemical reaction of H+H is around 435 kJ/mol.
The chemical reaction of H2 and O2 is around 286 kJ/mol.
So 1.5 times more energy than in the combustion of H2.
But there is more we can get out of the system:
stage 1. reaction is H+H = H2 (435kJ/mol)
stage 2. reaction is 2H2+O2 = 2H2O (286kJ/mol)
Sum energy is 721 kJ/mol.
that is 2.5 times more than the 2stage reaction of H2.
Maybe it is more, we have to try on a real application. I think the best efficient will be to stay very close to the cumbustion chamber when creating the hydrogen in the cell. We only have
The injector I think is one the best ideas to do this.
As we know, that higher voltages can generate this hydrogen in "statu nascendi", it is clear (for me) why meyer used higher voltages instead of high current with low voltage. So the balance of the HHO production is more on the atomic H side than on the H2 side.
So Stanley Meyer called this process in his words "Electrical polarization process" it was the first stage of the "hydrogen fracturing process". He could get out atomic hydrogen out of the water bath. It is difficult because of the very fast recombination to H2, but he had a lot of tools, to prohibit the recombination, like electromagnetic fields, laser, LEDs ..... I think also Mr. Dingle used the Neodym to prohibit the early recombination.
But the best way seems to be the injector, so no tools are needed, because the recombination happens where he wants to had it.
Eidt: I saw in this thread a mistake happend: stage 2 is H2 + O = H2O
It makes sense to further add either electromagnetic fields, laser and so on in order to prevent the atomic hydrogen to recombine to H2 before it reaches the combustion chamber.
This seems to me to be a further development of Meyer's WFC, it could also help explain the purpose of the injectors, to prevent recombination of the atomic hydrogen all the way in to the cylinder.
interesting,h2 more powerful than gasoline 2.5 times at the same volume but h+ more powerful than h2 2.5 times too.
After some time of research, the bloody question was, why do we create some much heat when we make electrolyse with higher voltages than ~2V.
I always thought, this is from the electrolyt or water inside, but it just start to heat at the electrodes. I measured this in my wetcell. The electrode itself was always hotter than the water around it. So the core of the heatsource was the electrodes.
Therefore I searched for answers, what happens at the electrodes at high voltages and a bit of athmosphere of H2 around it. I read a lot and found, that this reaction of H+H can heat up the water. This is because after the gasbubble is created, it stays a while on the electrode. So there is a chance to make the H+H reaction.
Indeed it was very efficient to warm up the water.
So I researched a lot by reading something about monoatomic hydrogen. H or H+.
They are far more reactive than H2.
Yes geenee, the energy will be higher, when the electron is far away from the atom´s core or completely pull off. (Ionisaztion).
it make sense to recombine the H atoms in the combustion chamber. This will be a mixed reaction of H+H and H2 +O2, but in the end we can get out more energy than only with the H2+O2.
I think, Daniel Dingel understood this. You can see in the video oh him, that the most of his stuff is from LPG modifikation tool. The hoses, the valves.....
So he turned his car with help of the LPG stuff into a hydrogen car.
I have to look for the information how fast air is sucked into the combustion chamber, hydrogen is good to us, it is 14times lighter than air. Is sucked in immideatly. He mentionet that in his videos, so I think he also uses the H+H reaction.
I think that's also what Bob Boyce had going when the diode blew in the regulator in his boat engine, he saw that at a specific RPM the motor all the sudden revved up, indicating that monatomic hydrogen were produced which in turn then upped the speed drastically.
It looks like bob boyce made the same experience with monoatomic hydrogen. He also wrote that the reactor should be placed near the engine.
So we should imagine that in every hho reactor can create monoatomic hydrogen. We only have to use it the right way before it reacts to H2 warm up the cell.
It sure looks like it.
Shorten the distance between the cell and the intake manifold, perhaps even add a HV electrostatic field or a laser pathway for the hydrogen to pass through on it's way to the motor, just to preserve the monoatomic hydrogen as much as possible.
in order, I was thinking about the atomic hydrogen creation. I found something, maybe this is not new for you guys, but I will put it in here:
One detail is very interesting: "Hydrogen gas liberated during a chemical reaction is always in atomic state, which is known as nascent hydrogen."
Also I found out, that hydrogen which is created on a cathode, has the same behaviour like in a "normal" chemical reaction. Electrolysis is a chemical reaction, which is forced by voltage and current. But there are the same chemical rules for it.
If we look at the "normal" electrolyses reaction we see, that atomic hydrogen is born on the cathode:
(H3O+) + (e-) => H + H2O ....
The time after it is born, normaly it forms to H2 and creates heat at the cathode.
So there is nearly no chance to do a cool electrolyses process in a external cell.
To use all the power of this process, it is much better to generate the atomic hydrogen where we need it. Indeed the high voltage will help us to form atomic hydrogen very fast. But we also need a little bit of current.
My trial and error methode show me, that in the injector, we have to solve 2 problems.
1. We need to electrolyse water into atomic hydrogen very fast. This can be made with high voltage (100-400DC), this also needs a little bit of current, but this helps us to do it very very fast.
2. We need a high voltage field afterwards like in a spark plug to ignite the atomic hydrogen.
I think Stan´s VIC (latest version) can do both. When water is inside it will be electrolised at a voltage, which depending on the resistance of the water. When all the water is in a gas state (HHO), there is no resistance any more and the VIC creates automatically the high voltage.
The first stage is "normal operation" of the transformer, it electrolyses with a voltage which he "can", depending on the primary side input.
The second stage, only HHO is in the injector is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-circuit_voltage , which can be very very high on such transformers like the VIC. I think russ showed this very well in his videos.
There are also some parallels to the "water spark plug".
something interesting about the oxyhydrogen chainreaction explosion:
So this is very interesting:-we see that the atomic form of hydrogen is very important for this chain reaction-the chain reaction gains its most energy out of H+H reaction. -the chain reaction only stops, when there is a local pysical end like a reactorwall or something like that, also stops when there are no more reaction partners-the chain reaction seems it can cycle along, as more H atoms are in it. Now, imagine, we do not use H2,
but we use monoatomic H => we see, that we need no splitting energy for H2=>H+H. As more monoatomic H, as longer the chain reaction can be. It looks like Meyer read this somewhere or he finding out by trail and error. Because he tried to create monoatomic H with his tools which Lynx already mentioned. He tried to keep the Hydrogen in atomic state as long as possible. In the reaction above, you can see why this is better than in molecular state. It looks like, if there are enough reaction partners like O2, we could create an avalanche effect of creating H during explosion.
To chance to create an avalanche is higher as more monoatomic H is present at the ignition.We also see, that there has to be enough reaction partners like O2. So with the monoatomic H we can use ambient air to give this chain reaction some fodder :-) Maybe it is possible to create an extremly lean fuel explosion.
Meyer used Several tool here, He used led laser to keep hydrogen in a hgh energy state to prevent them making h2 and he also extracted electrons in the cell with a electron extraction ciccuit which he used to power the leds on the cell this help keep the h mono atomic for longer.
(i) Molecular hydrogen
Ordinary hydrogen gas consists of di-atomic molecules in which two H-atoms unite together by covalent bond. This is known as molecular hydrogen.
Stability of molecular hydrogen
H-H bond energy is very high i.e, 104 Kcal per mole .Due to high bond energy ,molecule of hydrogen is very stable .It does not react under ordinary conditions .Only those reactions are possible in which at least 104 Kcal per mole of energy is available.
(ii) Atomic hydrogen
Hydrogen obtained by the dissociation of molecular hydrogen is called atomic hydrogen.
Atomic hydrogen is very energetic and very reactive .It has a very short life and spontaneously combine to form molecular hydrogen.
PREPARATION OF ATOMIC HYDROGEN
(i) By thermal dissociationWhen molecular hydrogen is heated at 5000C,it dissociates into atomic hydrogen.(This is a theoretical approach)
H2 è 2H
(ii) By electric discharge
At o.1 mm Hg to 1.00 mm Hg pressure
H2 è 2H
REACTIONS OF ATOMIC HYDROGEN
Being very energetic ,atomic hydrogen reacts with different substances under ordinary conditions.
(i) With Oxygen
2H + O2 è H2O2 (Hydrogen per oxide)
(ii) With Sulphur
H + S è H2S
(iii) With Chlorine
2H + Cl2 è 2HCl
(iv) With Phosphorus
3 H + P è PH3 (Phophene)
(v) With Copper Oxide
CuO + 2H è Cu + H2O (reduction)
(vi) With Silver Chloride
H + AgCl è Ag + HCl (reduction)
ATOMIC HYDROGEN TORCH
Atomic hydrogen torch is a system used to obtain a flame of 5000C. Atomic hydrogen when combined, a high temperature flame is obtained which is used to weld Al-alloys and different types of steel.
When molecular hydrogen is passed through an electric discharge, which is set up between two electrodes, it dissociated into atomic hydrogen. Being short-lived atom it recombined into molecular hydrogen. Consequently a flame of about 4000C to 5000C is produced which is sufficient for welding.
H + H è H2 + Heat (104 Kcal per mole)
(iii) NASCENT HYDROGEN
Hydrogen gas liberated during a chemical reaction is always in atomic state, which is known as nascent hydrogen.
Zn+HCl è ZnCl2 +2[H]
If a substance capable to react is present then it will react with it, otherwise it recombines into molecular hydrogen.